Children and Cats
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:00:34 -0400 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Caracals
> What kinds of domestics has anyone had a Caracal get along with?
My opinion (for what it's worth)...I probably wouldn't get ANY pet until your 3 1/2 year old is MUCH older...leaving children and any pet alone together can be a recipe for a dead pet, when the child is scratched and/or bitten after doing what comes developmentally naturally for a growing child and after the pet does what comes naturally for a growing animal. There are exceptions- some people/children are exceptionally savvy about animal behavior and willing to give the APPROPRIATE supervision- never leaving child/pet alone together to "entertain" each other. Animals and kids can love each other- but animals are not animate toys, nor are kids to be expected to have the understanding or maturity to know that animals have feelings just like theirs...
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:46:57 -0400 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Caracals
I would not get an exotic cat now because of my child's age and the lack of an outdoor area for the cat. However, with proper facilities, supervision and application of common sense, children and animals can co-exist.
This is how I handle my domestics:
First, my child is being taught to believe that all animals have a mind and feelings - and therefore should not not be teased or otherwise abused. No, I didn't sit down this 3 year old and tell him this, then expect him to immediately know and act accordingly. It takes daily reinforcement by example and dealing with any "situation" as it arises. I am happy so far with his progress.
I have 3 large mixed-breeds and several purebreds (Abyssinians & other) as I show cats. Adult and nearly-grown cats have the run of the house with a few exceptions:
The entire male - He has his own locked room (large and with 2 windows) because he lives by the motto "If it's female I'll screw it - male, I'll kill it - can't reach it? Spray it with urine!". He's a doll with people, even babies, but here's where I apply common sense - the lock. You tell a child not to open a door and he will anyway. So you lock it.
Sick cats - in their own room waiting for vet appt. or for recovery. Tell a child not to bother a sick cat and he'll get curious and want to pet it or make it play - "See, he's not sick!". Other CATS will act the same way towards it. So, you put it in a room by itself and take care of any petting, feeding etc. yourself -and don't forget the lock. Pregnant cats in their last 2 weeks, sometimes 3, are treated the same way.
Mother cats with kittens and/or young/half-grown kittens: Children and strangers are NEVER allowed in with them. First, the mother stresses. Then - properly vaccinated cats (my opinion) are not "done" till 4-5 months. Till then, they are at extreme risk of infection. Then OK -
Strangers - they seem to react to kittens just like a 3 year old. They will pick them up when told not to etc. when you're not looking AND cats catch disease much more easily than, say, dogs do - and often hide it till they're very sick or almost dead. People can bring things in on their feet, clothes and hands so with few exceptions, no strangers in the kitten room (my bedroom).
Children - guage the risk - a lock on the tomcat's door could be opened, sure, but that is not likely to happen without me discovering the act in mid-progress and if a child got in there - well, the cat would get petted or get out. Both situations could be handled with acceptable risk to anyone involved. So, I do it. Kittens, on the other hand - are never, ever safe with an unattended child. They could be killed in an instant. Even half-grown kittens could be seriously injured , the child escaping with a few scratches. Also, domestic kittens should be socialized just like an exotic - with the exception that they can nurse off their mother. No rough handling, no teasing, no unnecessary stress any PLENTY of human contact. Mine sleep in the bed. An improperly socialized domestic will be at the least unapproachable and possibly agressive. At the worst, it may end up euthanized because it is an undesirable pet. Now - I can properly separate moms/kittens from my child with a lock and separate room - so I keep them.
The healthy adults roaming the house - they can easily escape a child and because they are properly socialized, they are no danger to one, either. Ever tried to bathe a 5 pound cat? If so, you will appreciate the escaping ability of even a small cat. I can hold onto one but it's a mess and no fun - and I'm 145 pounds. Even in a fight with a dog, it's usually the dog with the injuries - - not the cat. So, keeping adult cats in my house with a properly supervised and trained child is an acceptable risk to me.
Now with exotics - I don't have one because I don't feel that my facilities are correct and because of local laws. Money is not the problem and neither is finding someone, however unscruptulous, to sell me one.
Cats are kittens for 12 months - exotics even longer. All cats can be adult size and weight in 6-8 months. Now, domestics can be raised in my bedroom. Space is not a problem and - hate to say it - but if a child got in, the kittens would be in danger, not the child. I take steps to be sure this doesn't happen but the risk is acceptable. With an exotic, space would be a SERIOUS problem and if a child got in - the child could be killed. Not an acceptable risk. My bedroom has a lock but not a double padlock with double entrance.
When I can get to a proper location, I believe I can minimize the risk to everyone on the premises to an acceptable level to be able to keep an exotic - even with a human child present. I do realize that the wild instincts are still intact in an exotic so you must take extra precautions and always be aware that their instincts are different than in humans. No, I don't expect to be "The Exception" and get a wild cat to act human. This is why I asked about the stalking behavior in Caracals. I don't intend to get into this without proper education. Caracals are sight-hunters to the extreme. You'd have to be to catch birds in mid-flight as a staple of your diet, not the occasional supplement to rodents. Just as a Tiger or Leopard has a particular instinct to jump on your back (YES I know all cats do it - but you are in MORE danger with a Leopard or Tiger) I am wondering what particular instincts a Caracal has.
Jill, the only thing in your post I disagree with is that I shouldn't have a wild cat until the child is much older. I do think that the average fancier (as in the general public) might be making a bad choice in so doing - but I'm doing my homework and fully intend to do things in a sensible way.
Also, as a purebred breeder - a SMALL and ETHICAL purebred breeder, in my opinion - I am painfully aware of some things that prospective exotic owners may not be. Just try to find a vet when you say the word "breeder". People don't differentiate between those who have 75 cats in a communal area living in filth and breeding at will - and those like myself who have few cats, research matings carefully and have few kittens (and take responsibility for those kittens even after sold). I drive 20+ miles to my vet and pass DOZENS on my way as I live in a large city. I am not even comfortable completely with HER. Vets generally know little about cats past routine visits, outdated protocols, and very basic health care. A human doctor has ONE animal to know. Vets have MANY - and generally prefer dogs. Add this to cattery cats having to be treated differently than ferals or average pets (different diseases/concerns and often more agressive treatment when a problem is found). I am more up-to-date with advances in cat medicine than most vets because I HAVE to be. AND my opinion of how to treat routine care is different. I know my breeds better than most vets so can suspect certain problems earlier. I can spot an enterprising person a mile away (as in padding the bill). I have different opinions on the status of strays/ferals/rescues/wild cats/purebreds etc. than most people. I do my own vaccines. This makes me a "Problem Customer". Assuming a person can find a vet to treat an exotic (mine will, though I could technically get arrested for entering the city with it) WHAT PROBLEMS could they expect!? Just like decent babysitting is the worst problem in having children - decent vet care is the worst problem in having cats. And when you have to work and have no sitter or need vet care and no one will take you - it's the WORST feeling. You are responsible for an innocent being and can't do anything. I have had to learn to do routine vet care and some more advanced care myself - out of necessity. Because of this, I spend a LOT of time on my computer keeping up to date and networking with people in the same boat.
Some prospective exotic owners might not understand the concept of "entire male = bad pet", not absolutely - but generally. Having experienced spraying, horny, agressive male domestics, I shudder to think of how rotten a male exotic could be. You'd have 2 choices - 1) Neuter him - and depending on the situation, you might not want to do that (and it might not help, either) 2) Build him a habitat and accept that he will never be a bedmate.
Some people might think that getting a female would guarantee a tame, non-spraying cat. PMS is not a myth - in felines, either - and the first time one backs up and squirts your feet (and continues to do so every 3 weeks for 8 days straight) you will get a rude awakening. Domestic owners sometimes rush to the vet to get their "defective" cat antidepressants like they would for themselves. I don't think this is the best solution.
At least in the wild cat community, there is information on why an exotic might make a bad pet. Domestics are just a scaled-down version and many die because humans don't understand their needs/characteristics. All you find is info. on why cats are the perfect pet. Humans, I find, are either like a cat or a dog in personality - and I don't mean loud and friendly as opposed to quiet and self-sufficient. I mean they tend to respond to external stimuli either like a cat or a dog and most people act like dogs (I mean this literally, not figuratively; not "owns cats" or "owns dogs" – not "non-asshole" or "asshole"). Dog people are not safe around an exotic (because they'll eventually get mauled), though they might own a housecat. Cat people find dogs stupid and irritating, though they may have a special dog as a friend.
I do hope to find lots of info. and some friends from this list. Do any of you know of any other good exotic lists? There are dozens of purebred lists and pet lists. Any more like this one - maybe more technical? Are there vets, zookeepers, exotic-breeders, and mostly exotic owners on this list or mostly non-owning fanciers? Being new to it, I have no idea. If one day I have a very specific health concern or permit question, is this the best place to post it?
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 01:33:08 -0700 Subject: FEL-L: Exotic and Kids-Chamless
I take in bobcats and cougars whose people got into more than they could handle or whose situations changed after they got their exotic. I do not have children but I have had numerous children in with my cats. I have cute pictures of a baby with a young cougar and lots of bobcat and kid pictures. It can be done.
However, I would personally never have an exotic of any kind with a young child in the same household. This is just my opinion based on my personal experience and the experiences others have shared with me. I know of one bobcat who is incredible (but young-barely two) who can be pretty well be trusted, grew up with kids and is a good kid cat at present but again the kids weren't young - at least 11 years old. One of the Bobs I have was raised in unbelievable splendor untill he was 3 years old. He grabbed a visiting 4 year old by the shoulder and "took him to his room" .Realizing that very small kids and exotic cats don't mix well, the owner decided to give up this lovely cat. Having nowhere else to turn, he took this declawed and neutered boy to the local wildlife rehab facility, who placed him with me. I've had this boy since 93. He is quite sweet.
This is the kind of debate that can go on and on. The best suggestion I can give in regards to getting an exotic of any sort is to make several visits to owners of adult exotics. Ones that are over 2 or 3 years old. All babies are unbelieveably wonderful. Getting an exotic is only a few months of adorable baby, a little longer fun, dependent, loving teen – then it's many, many, many years of close association with a most magnificent alien being of indescibeable beauty; of adjusting to an alien, but wonderful way of behavior and thinking. It's your job to adjust to having a piece of the wild in your environment. This wild thing will not adjust to our civilized environment.
I'm not saying these cats can not be wonderful, on the contrary, I think sharing space with them is a most excellent way to spend an entire lifetime. However-in the wild- the young, the weak and the old are prey. All predators do a service in the scheme of things by thier natural behaviors and on a higher scale preform an excellent service in stopping any suffering of badly wounded or old animals. It's probably also a very good thing for the survival of a species that the predator is waiting on the edge ready to take down a silly little calf that doesn't learn real quick to stay with the herd.
I know I am pretty opinionated on this subject. But I have seen my loving cougars many, many times rivet on a child visiting us. I've had my sweet, sweet bobcats go way too intense waiting for that one little extra inch of closeness.
Again, this is strictly my opinion. The decision to get an exotic is yours and yours alone - I have no intentions of attempting to tell you what to do. Just suggesting you make the decision based on the adult version.