Equipment to handle cats
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:47:40 EST Subject: FEL-L: Equipment
I will check out Thunder Mountain. What I'm looking for is harness that will fit cougars. Cougars, as you know, and dogs are not built the same, and we are having trouble finding one that will fit Claire. I'm also interested catch nets and other equipment used in handling cats.
I also have a squeeze cage for bobs, a capture cage with a drop door instead of swing door. This cage attaches to the squeeze cage for easy transfer to the squeeze cage. I also have a large anestisize recovery cage for use at the Vet and trip home.
I have a pump dart rifle with a four power scope that's effective up to 100 yds. l use a dart blow gun for inside pens and anesthetize. All of which you may use if you need them.
Thanks for the help and will be looking forward to more info on equipment.
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:50:52 EST Subject: FEL-L: FEL-L Equipment
You may obtain darts, guns, or blow guns from:
PNEU-DART INC.
POBox 1415
Williamsport, PA. 17703-1415
(717) 323-2710 Fax (717) 323-2712
Larry Torland makes one of the nieces squeeze cage that I have seen for bobs and lynx:
10809 NE 232nd.
Vancouver, WA. 98682
(360) 944-4463
Just talked to Jean Torland on the land line, and she said they would love to talk to you about a cage. Like all of us great cat lovers.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:14:08 EST Subject: Re: FEL-L: Equipment
Try ACES for equipment no harness though but I bet they would have one custom made. Saddle shops too. ACES (800) 338-2237 Sherry:)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:14:46 -0800 Subject: FEL-L: dart gun
We use a Zoolu Pole Syringe that I swear by now (thanks George and Kelly Jean). Recommended by a vet that lectured at the last LIOC convention. We've been able to inject a wild cat successfully even with the needle bent completely backwards. We bought it from ACES. I think that stands for Animal Care and Equipment Supply maybe. Don't have the # handy. Anybody got their 800#?
Shirley: ACES number 1-800-338-2237 TBR
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:54:23 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: dart gun
I have used the pole syringes on large cats and also the CO2 dart pistols. In my opinion there is no comparasion in the way the perform. The dart pistol is less that $200.00 with darts and 110% better than any pole syringe I've seen. The dart pistol didn't have any bent needles and I was able to use about 1/4 the amount of medication to do the same thing. Just my experience. Glenda :)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 15:44:32 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: dart gun
The thing I really liked about the dart gun over the pole syringe was how much more calmly the animals went under compared to the pole syringe. I had our Vet load the dart with medication and then put it in the gun and the sites were right on and the Vet and I talked about just exactly where we wanted to hit so that we were away from nerves and such. It was just a little Ka-pack and the cat jumped and looked around like what was that and did not associate that it even had came from me. I just talked to them and let them know I felt sorry for them and they told me all about how the thing stung their butt and it was all better.
With the pole syringe they know exactly who is doing the dirty and they let em know about it. With a full grown male lion it is not a pretty site. I don't ever want any other living thing looking at me the way he did when we use the pole syringe.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 00:56:59 EST Subject: Re: FEL-L: dart gun
<< Re: the dart gun vs. the pole. I agree. The vet used a dart 'blowgun' at
I have to be certified here in VA, for chemical immobilization it is a tough coarse but well worth it! I'm certified in all species other than non human primates. I LOVE the blow gun for up to 30 feet! It doesn't do the damage a CO2 riffle or pistol does in the same area range. It is so accurate! Thin skinned animals like cats it is really great they never know what happened to them! Glenda do you have to remove the dart from under the skin on you pistol shots? Just curious.
I would go blow dart for any thin skinned animal in 30 feet. Unless it was wild and had adrenaline pumping. Do you know about or have Terry Krugers book "HANDBOOK OF WILDLIFE CHEMICAL IMMOBILIZATION"? It gives all the correct drug dosages for species etc.. You can order it from him (307) 322-2571. Fowlers Restraint Manual for Wild and Domestic Animals, is also good! Everyone who works with big cats or stock should take the CHEMICAL IMMOBILIZATION SAFE CAPTURE Class from SAFE CAPTURE INTERNATIONAL INC. Dr. Keith Amass. (608) 767-3072, It is hard, but you learn so much! It is worth every penny!
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 22:38:10 -0800 Subject: FEL-L: dart gun
I would think, don't really know, that a dart gun would be better for bigger cats or things like livestock that you can't get close to in a pasture (longer range). Having both would be nice, having a choice with different situations. For littler cats, is there a danger in being a smaller target? Like accidently hitting an eye or spinal chord, or chipping a bone in a hip?
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 11:15:13 -0700 Subject: Re: FEL-L: dart gun
Of course, accuracy is always important, but as Sherry states in her last e-mail the force of the dart gun is much more significant that the blow gun. I think my choice for the smaller cats would be the blow gun for that reason. Of course, I'm also talking close range, under 30'.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 14:50:48 EST Subject: Re: FEL-L: dart gun
Rifles, pistols, and shotgun type of CO2 projectors are recommned for animals over 25 pounds. Animals that weigh under 25 pounds light weight blow dart, hand inject or trap. or other low impact projector are recommended. The old Palmer gun isn't recommend for thin skinned animals such as felids, horses etc. Saw a necropsy of a "wild" horse that had been in a pasture and the owner had shot it with a palmer, the projector went throught the skin and through the lung, even from a great distance it was shot from. I really like the blow gun it is very accurate up to 30 - 40 feet even on larger cats. It is inexpensive, silent, low impact so there is less tramua to the animal.
If you are in the market to buy dart equipment, look for one you can control the velocity and what is best for the animals you have, if you have elephants and rhinos that are thick skinned a palmer will work well, but it could kill thin skinned animals and/or do a lot of damage. I really like the CO2 riffles with laser scopes if your situations calls for a scope. If you have questions Dr. Keith Amass is a capture specialist his # (608) 767-3071 email: safecapture@aol.com. is a great resource. Sherry:)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:51:47 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: dart gun
I think I would agree on the blow dart with smaller cats if you do some practicing first. They can be difficult to get a good aim with right off but with some practice they work well. At least I have been told that by F & G and USDA people who have had occasion to use them often enough to actually have some experience.
The dart pistol that we have is like a hand gun. It is considered a short to medium range projector (3 to 30 yards) and not recommended for darts over 3cc. The darts themselves also pack a small charge that is set off when the dart actually hits so that the liquid in the dart is injected at the same time it hits. The result is by the time the animal jumps the full 3cc is in the muscle. It happens so quickly that the dart hits injects and most times would fall out next to the cat and lay on the ground next to the cat. I did not see any bent needles. They have a number of other sizes of pistols and rifles depending on what you might need. They also sell pole syringes and Blo-Jector Kit.
Anybody who is interested should call the place and I think they will send you one of their small color catalogs for free. It makes is much easier to compare what they have available and decide what would be right for the situation your dealing with. I know The Big Ragoo posted this once already but just in case anybody missed it here it is again. Glenda :)
Pneu-Dart P.O. 1415 Williamsport, PA 17703
Phone: 717-323-2710 Fax: 717-323-2712
Office Hours: 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. eastern time Monday thru Friday. It says telephone and fax is available 24 hours/365 days a year. I suspect you might get an answer machine during non office hours.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 19:57:27 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: dart gun
I have not had to remove any of the darts or needles but I have always used the pistol on cougars and lions and tigers. I would think that the blow dart would be better for anything smaller. Most of the time though with smaller cats unless the cat has escaped you should be able to put some sort of squeeze cage or carrier in the animals cage and be patient and work them around until they go in voluntarily.
With the kennel cab type carriers it is easy to put large plastic bags over them and seal the kennel cab up with duct tape and get enough gas into the kennel cab to get the cat under enough that you can quickly open the door and get the animal out and get a mask or tube it. We have successfully done this with a full grown cougar. Once they go down you just have to be quick about getting them out and getting gas back on them. The cougar we spayed this way did not have any drugs other than the isoflourene gas used on her and when we took her home after surgery (which was about a 20 minute drive and time to unload her, 30 minutes tops) she was able to walk out of her kennel cab herself and walked over to her fresh bedding and layed down.
For lions and tigers a 1 gallon milk jug that has been well cleaned works great with a little duct tape for a gas mask. The tube from the isoflourane gas machine is very close to the same size as the opening in top of the milk jug. Cut off the bottom of the jug and slip it over giant cat face and duct tape the around the edges so that it seals around the cats face and keep an eye on it to make sure your not loosing any gas to the surrounding area and stay well ventilated just incase. I know this is not a fancy way but it does work effectively. With cougars they make masks for large short nose dogs that seal and work well. Just another bit experience to share with everybody.
Each time a Vet works on one of our animals I insist on being present through the whole thing. I know this makes me a big pain in the ass to some Vets but so be it. I will find a Vet who doesn't mind. I kind of feel it is my responsibility to watch and learn as much as I can even if it is stressful or maybe not very easy to watch. I always learn something and try to use it to make better decisions for the future. Glenda :)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:54:42 EST Subject: FEL-L: Dart Guns (pistol or rifle) vs Dart Blowgun
First let me explain a little about my Handle (nick name). TBR stands for "The Big Ragoo." This was derived from a small business, called Ragoo's Corner Bench. My second love in life are guns, my family being first. To me a gun is a gun, (like a cat is a cat). It makes no difference whether you blow it or pull a trigger. If a projectile comes out the end of it, it's a GUN. In our text, the guns we use are for one purpose, to immobilize and/or administer medication to our cats. The question is, how is this best accomplished with the equipment we have or can afford, with as little trauma to the cat as possible. We also cannot lose fact that we are all different and procedure we have developed may not work for our friends and colleges.
The guns I have acquired over the years has all been PNEU-DART, manufactured by Benjamin. I have purchased a Model 178B pump rifle, a Mold 190 pump pistol and a blowgun. Each has a pacific use in my operation. I chose the pump style over the CO-2 because I felt that I had better control over distance and impact of the dart. Being a gun dealer (federal and state) I was able to test both type under the same conditions. For example, one pump on the rifle, two on the pistol would barley penetrate one side of a cardboard box at 20'. The lowest setting on the CO-2's would penetrate the cardboard box and loge in the rear side, (depth of cardboard box 12"). To me the impact with the CO-2 was greater than what I needed for my operations, so I selected pump style over CO-2. The rifle has a longer range with a 3cc dart than the pistol. Both rifle and pistol have greater impact than a blowgun at close range.
I have used the rifle once, and the pistol twice and in both cases they performed as I expected. Just for information I use Ketaset (Ketamine HCI) and Rompun for immobilization. When used together Ketamine and Rompun produce better results than used alone. For me they are safe, you can hardly OD a cat that weighs 25 to 50 lbs. with it. Before using any drug always and I mean always, talk to your Vet.
I have used my blowgun far more than the rifle or pistol. I use it for administering medication instead of immobilization. A cc of penicillin can work wonders some times, when you have a cat acting a little puny, which is very easy to administer with the blowgun. Don't forget that bobs are very smart, if I come anywhere near them with a long black stick they are in their house in a heart beat. The impact is very light, with minimum bruising or tissue damage. Pneu blowguns are made up of two, two foot aluminum tubes that couple together. In close quarters I have just used only one section (the first half) and it worked very will. I now use another system or method to immobilize my cats. It involves far less trauma for the cat than using a dart.
The equipment that I have, I've used more for rescue situations, than my own kids. Like a bobcat cornered or trapped in a barn hurt and/or sick. When you need a gun you need it now, you can't wait to barrow it from someone 30 to 100 miles away. Regular practice with any type gun is required to build and maintain proference. I would suggest, if at all possible, one should try a friends gun before buying one. Be sure it fits your needs.
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:20:52 -0600 Subject: Re: FEL-L: What are youse guys, nuts ? #2
There is a company in Ill that makes the collars and transmitters. The receiver I think cost about $750.00 and the transmitters are over a hundred bucks. We use them in the forests while looking for dope. One of the guys will wear a transmitter that is attached to a shoulder harness. The range is about 3 miles. Hunters also use some on their coon dogs in case they get lost. But when someone finds the dog they take it off and throw it away, and keep the dog. I dont think they would do it with a tiger.
Wildlife Materials Carbondale, IL 618/549/6336
This is old materials I have so the numbers may not be correct. I will try to scan the price list to give you a idea
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:10:36 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Tracking collars and containment
The problem with telemetry equipment is the battery life of the transmitter. If you didn't mind changing batteries after 14-20 days, then you could get a full set up including 16 channel receiver, folding yagi, and transmitter for $794... This type of set up is used alot in falconry, so if a 2 lb. hawk can fly with one attached I don't see why it couldn't be modified for this use as well.
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:09:49 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Tracking collars and containment
http://www.northwoodsfalconry.com has a decent selection of telemetry equipment. Hope this helps. ;]
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:17:21 EST Subject: Re: FEL-L: squeeze cage ...
LGL-Animal Care Products
(409) 775-1776
Bryan, TX
fax- (409) 775-8449
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 11:28:33 EDT Subject: FEL-L: Reason for harness
I saw a little while ago someone mention that that had a harness on their cat for reasons of taking them for a walk, well I can give you an even better reason. My bobcat has worn a harness all his life, I don't take it off except for cleaning an adjusting (it is very hard to get back on, you have to conjole, and or trick him into letting me put it back on, and the tricks only work once). I leave it on so that I can restrain him when he doesn't want to be held, he doesn't seem to resent it like he dose if I grab him by the body somewhere. Anyway my house was destroyed by a tornado Monday, You can pull a screaming, clawing,bitting 40 lb., bobcat out into a hailstorm before a tornado and stuff him into a pickup cab and survive if he is wearing a harness. Sandy