Rabbit
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:47:34 EDT Subject: FEL-L: Rabbit Meat Sources....
To those of you who wrote requesting information on the rabbits..... No, I didn't forget you.... I was literally swamped with requests. So I tried to put together a list for you, see below. Keep in mind that these folks are hobby meat breeders for the most part, with a couple commercial growers thrown in. These folks are from the "Meatrabbits" list at OneList.com. There is another Commercial Rabbit Growers Discussion Group on another listserv and I wil try to get a list of addresses from them as well, which should help diversify the locales. Hopes this helps....
As one person put it: "Rabbit, mmmmmmm good!" Jill
Arkansas, Lincoln dorislc@dicksonstreet.com
California, Oroville RNRQ@cncnet.com
California, San Diego ccasey@deferred.com
Florida, Tallahassee rabbit@talweb.com
Illinois, Crystal Lake topdog98@hotmail.com
Maine, Bridgton bishbun@cybertours.com
Michigan, Cedar Springs 5bfarms@mail.cmedic.net
Michigan, Lake Odessa carpjrabbit@voyager.net
Mississippi, Lucedale MHRabitry@aol.com
Missouri kelly422@socket.net
Nevada, Reno Stibbar@aol.com
New Hampshire jcs.ent@worldnet.att.net
New Hampshire, Lee sranch@bit-net.com
Ohio, New Philadelphia okhaven@tusco.net
Ohio, Trenton topspots@juno.com
Oklahoma rabithouse@aol.com
Oregon, Bandon HOTDOTS1@aol.com
Oregon, Coos Bay Doggypal@aol.com
Texas kktex@hotmail.com
Texas, Orange RcknM@aol.com
Washington, Bothell lazyacre@nwlink.com
Washington, Kennewick fuzyfarm@3-cities.com
Washington, Olympia WhtRabbits@aol.com
Wisconsin Andrea@countrymom.com
Wisconsin, McFarland dwedel531@aol.com
Wisconsin, North/Central mamamar5@webtv.net
Wisconsin, Plymouth rbacon@excel.net (meat goats too)
Wisconsin, Rhinelander andrea@countrymom.com
CANADA, B.C., Kelowna a1foxes@home.com
CANADA, Ontario CorbettJ@computer-products.com
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:41:44 -0800 Subject: FEL-L: Feeding unusual meats?
I was just feeding the goats and wondered if any of you had ever tried feeding goat, ostrich, mutton, venison or other uncommon meats to your cats? If so, did they like and tolerate it well? I've heard a lot of you feed turkey and chicken, is beef included? Do any of you feed whole mice or chicks (previously dispached)? Curious, Melanie
PS Sitting wondering where all the old goats go when they die...I would find them a bit rank, myself
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:53:07 -0600 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Feeding unusual meats?
I have fed them all Melanie. We feed mostly cows, calves, and whole chickens. But I have dressed many goats and sheep. They like goat a lot and they like sheep, if I cut all the fat off first. Their initial reaction to emu was to drop it. But hours later, when they realized that was dinner, they ate it and after about three days of feeding emu, they loved it. Just needed to get familiar with it. And of course, horsemeat is a delicacy - everybody loves that. It is so tender - cuts like butter - I can see why humans eat it in Europe. The whole animal is like filet migon.
In the winter I feed fresh trapped beaver (they are a nusiance animal here in Arkansas) and deer from the taxidermist. They have killed many a possum that ventured into their compounds, but they have NEVER eaten one. I have offered fish, but don't seem to have any fish lovers here. At our facility we house cougar, bobcat and serval and they all eat these these different livestock animals.
PS Sitting wondering where all the old goats go when they die – some of them come to N.O.A.H. Cougar Conservaton Center here in Arkansas....
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:34:01 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Feeding unusual meats?
We have fed goats, sheep, emu, and the like to our cats. We are careful about where they come from. Usually older animals that are declining in health we avoid but we have had a number of emu here lately because so many folks are now getting out of the emu biz and they don't know what to do with all the birds. Out of 3 big cats; 2 lions, and 2 tigers only the female lion won't eat emu. None of them have a problem with goats but will only eat sheep if it has recently been sheared very close. I guess they don't like the wool. Go figure. We only feed whole animals after they have been beheaded and gutted. Our cats have never eaten entrails very well. The 2 males will clean up a 150 - 200 pound animal in about 24 to 36 hours. Anything left after that we dispose of. We only feed whole animals when the weather is cooler outside also. Never in the heat of summer. Another quarters worth. Glenda ;)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:19:58 -0800 Subject: FEL-L: feeding unusual meats
We've fed goat and emu and both were eaten readily by all cats. I've gotten sheep too, but the cougar vomited now and then with mutton. Seemingly because it is way to fatty, I could smell the stink of the grease on my hands after dressing them out for DAYS. Don't take sheep any more. Venison is part of their regular diet daily, along with Nebraska and chicken. No mice or chicks, too small. But we do give rats once a week and they are gobbled 100%.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:32:54 EST Subject: FEL-L: Unusual meats
I can add some variety to the list that my kids like, Hearts from lambs, pigs and beef.
Haven't ever had any goat, but my boys and girls would eat anything as long as I gave it to them. My family is on a red meat diet, with chicken necks, turkey drums, multiple vitamins, calcium and sulfates for a will balanced diet. - - TBR
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:51:00 -0500 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Feeding unusual meats?
>They have killed many a possum that ventured into their compounds, but they have NEVER eaten one.
I can second that...we have had about 5 or 6 'possom venture into the cages in the past 3 years. All of them were bigger than the cage wire seperations which makes me wonder how the hell they got them through the cage, or how they got in!
I have searched and searched for a hole that I may have missed, but have never found one.
The other favorite kill is snakes, which they chew up, but never eat. Birds and chipmonks. forget about it, nothing but feathers and fur left as evidence.
As a little aside....we were taking the skulls of all their wild kills and mounting them on the upper 2x4 on nails that is part of the commonway, ala the alien creature in Preditor. We decided that when we became USDA certified, that perhaps the inspector may not share our type of humor, so we took them down.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:05:46 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Feeding unusual meats?
> The other favorite kill is snakes, which they chew up, but never eat.
What type of cat do you have that kills the snakes? I ask only because my African lion has always had a natural fear of snakes. We did not even realize this until we saw a small garden type snake that was in the cage next to hers with the tiger. The tiger was wary but very curious. The lion just had a fit and was jumping and groaning with her feet up and down and could not get on her den box fast enough. We about died laughing at her antics. Now anything can be a snake to her. For example if I move the hose and hiss softly she jumps across the cage and up on the box to hide from the snake.
The original snake was only perhaps and inch in diameter and 18 inches long. It was hard to believe that a 400 pound cat was frightened of a snake that small. Glenda:)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:55:56 EST Subject: Re: FEL-L: Feeding unusual meats?
My Bob the bobcat is a snake killer. I think he thinks that he is a reincarnated mongoose, one of his better traits :) He doesn't distinguish between the water hose and a snake though. He has a nice tooth inflicted water sprinkler now, instead of a hose. Sherry :)
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:10:11 EDT Subject: FEL-L: Feline diets...
I am lucky enough to have a local meat co. willing to grind and package my own ingredients for me. What I'm curious about is this... Of the folks on the list that I know personally, most of you purchase human consumption turkey drums, chicken necks, etc... Whether you're buying them from Fred Myer or from your local meat house by the pound. What I'd like to know is how many of you raise your own meats?
Somehow, inadvertently, as a side-effect of ownership, I now find myself in the position of raising rabbits. Meat rabbits, that is... Californians and Silver Martens... Since they wean at 6 weeks, are ready to slaughter (what a yucky term) at 11 wks, and are quite prolific, it ends up being much more cost effective than purchasing them at the local meat house. Not only does it supply the staple of their diet, but puts some meat in our own freezer as well. And the guy I bought them from does the neck-thingy and cleans them for a buck apiece. Like I said, pretty cost-effective.
So, am I going nuts? Or are there those of you who do the same? By the way, for the record, my C. lynx who were fed turkey drums and chicken necks religiously, never hesitated to devour the rabbit meat.
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 00:40:34 -0700 Subject: FEL-L: Re:Raising your own feed
Yes, I raised my own feed for a number of years. I raised rabbits and chickens. I did more chickens than rabbits as I could free-range them and they were much easier. I raised 2 to 4 batches of 200 to 400 each yearly. Haven't been raising much recently for various reasons. I raised my own food so the cat would have the whole animal and the closest to natural diet. I started my bobs on whole rabbit in 89 when they were able to eat it. I find I do not need to add a lot of vitamins etc to the diet if the whole animal is given. Your rabbit cleaning guy could probably just terminate Lunch and Dinner for your freezer if you want. Right now I am feeding whole chickens from the fryer farm that have been frozen. My cougars and Bobs are doing excellent. I supplement this with donated people food from local groceries - concentrating on heart, liver etc. I prefer Rabbits as the main food for my babies but where I am now the going price is 8.00 for an old doe!! Where I come from 2 to 3 dollars for a 10 Lb doe is normal...so I used to be a quick sale for a number of the locals who went to auction. These guys knew to get any rabbits and I'd buy them within certain guide lines.
No, your not nuts in my opinion. Before I got these guys I was a member of PETA and rather vocal about the evils of raising ANY animals for food –in fact - a near vegitarian. Over the last 10 years I've progressed in my education to better serve this big furry owners..I can even do a lot of the messy Prep. Here's my long winded 2 cents. J
Date: Wed, 19 May 99 11:27:55 -0000 Subject: FEL-L: Re: Raising your own meat
Actually, from an intellectual standpoint, this makes sense. You also know what the food animal has been fed, so it's all in your control. I couldn't do it, though. Vegetarian, and I follow a Native American religion. I know Native Americans see the animals as people, but still can kill for food. I'm just a wimpy Wasitchu (white person).
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:17:03 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Feline diets...
Rabbit is the preferred food for Canadian Lynx, so it is great that you are able to provide them with their natural diet. I'm curious as to why you want to grind them up though? None of my animals like ground meat. Even turkey, which they love, they will reject if it is ground up. Must be the texture. Of course, if they have no choice .......
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 06:05:58 EDT Subject: Re: FEL-L: Feline diets...
Thats an excellent point. Actually, originally, I wasn't planning on raising rabbits as side to feed the lynx. ;-) So my focus was on researching the field studies done on bobcats and lynx in the wild, with regard to their natural diets. From there, I went to trying to understand how the prepared feed manufacturers, (PMI Mazuri and Lab Diet, Nebraska, Zupreem, etc..) came to their conclusions about the dietary nutritional needs for non-domestic felines. I wanted to do the research, speak to the nutritionists who were experts in their fields, and come up with my own conclusions based on ideals rather than minimum requirements.
I called around to the different meat packaging houses and found someone very close by who was willing to grind up my ingredients in 100 lb minimums, and package them however I wished, be it in 1 lb or 5 lb tubes. All this was for convenience on my part... As I said, I hadn't thought of raising my own meat rabbits.
Also, my understanding from domestic nutritionists was that in the wild, canines and felines ate the organ meats and stomach contents first. (before they spoiled) Whereas we can digest vegetable stuffs, their digestive tracts aren't made for digesting veggies. Consequently, they ingest the already partially digested grasses, herbs, etc., which provides some of the nutrients in a form that is easily assimilated. When I shared this with the list last year, I was told that no, in fact, cats do not eat the stomach contents. Due to my inexperience with non-domestic felines, I didn't argue. But I have learned different. Through the field studies that I've read, as well as several personal emails from the experiences of others, the cats do indeed eat everything. Everything that is with the exception of the portion of intestines containing bowel. Bobcats and lynx in particular, will start at the head (or back of the neck) and will eat the entire rabbit save for the already mentioned bowels.
At any rate, since these lynx here were accustomed to eating skeletal muscle (turkey drums and chicken necks fed raw), my goal was to switch them to quartered rabbits, also fed raw. So far, despite the diet change, we've had no loose stools and the cats love their meals. I'm hoping to gradually encourage them to eat the whole rabbit, and will probably start the way one woman on the list found success... First, by partially pelting the rabbit, then by just splitting the hide along the spine, and then by simply letting them do it. There are plenty of hatcheries and chicken farms around (in fact I spent most of this afternoon out at the Wilcox Farms in Roy), so I don't foresee needing to raise any chickens!
Anyway, there's my long winded reply.... Having my own prepared ground foodstuffs was simply for my convenience to ensure that the cats were receiving a feed that was based on ideals, rather than minimal requirements. I was also concerned about salmonella and other issues that you deal with when feeding certain raw foodstuffs. (how many of the folks out there take the time to wash their meats with a peroxide dilute? and if I did, would my cats still eat it?) At the time, I was also expecting several pairs of cats, and raising *that* many rabbits would have been a full time chore! And yes, I agree that whole natural foods are healthier, thus our new arrivals of Californians and Silver Martens. ;-)
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:04:29 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Feline diets...
Salmonella is always a concern, but I think the reason most people do not wash the meat with peroxide, no matter how diluted, is that the cats probably wouldn't want to eat it unless they were starved into it. In more than 10 years of feeding raw turkey drums and chicken necks, I have only had a problem with salmonella once, and that was in a very young lynx. I have heard that salmonella grows much more readily in ground meat, but that is not a consideration for me, since my cats don't want anything ground.
To minimize salmonella growth, I keep the meat frozen until it is time to feed, and then thaw it out quickly in hot water. I feed only what the cats will eat immediately and pick up anything that they left, so they do not eat it after it has been sitting out.
If you're squeamish about rabbits or rodents, you can buy them frozen and just thaw and feed. I know it sounds terrible and it took me a little to get used to handling them. They're not messy or anything, and my lynx absolutely love them. They toss them around and "kill" them and play for 30 or so minutes before they eat them. (Great enrichment) They usually eat everything. My cats are 50-60 pounds and prefer rabbits or large rats. We've fed our servals at the zoo mice, small rats or even large ones. There are a couple of places to order from - Gourmet Rodent (352) 495-9024 or Mice on Ice 1-800-FLA-MICE