Raw VS Cooked
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:53:06 +1000
I am a former employee from Taronga Zoo in Sydney. We have feed our carnivores (both canids and felids) raw meat for some time now. We include bones and fur or feathers depending on the meat. We also sprinkle the meat with a vitamin supplement called Petvite. This is the same with most Australian Zoos. The meat varies from beef, kangaroo, horse, chicken and rats, we also include liver (for the cats) twice a week which most of the cats love.
As to your concern about food posioning as such, we have had no prolems at all. Meat is prepared on site, frozen then transported to our cool room for use the following day. This means that the meat is fairly fresh, we remove any leftover bones and skin before it gets too hot. However occasionally the tigers will take their meat out on display with them. No ill effects have been observed after such behavior. I hope this helps, I am all for feeding a raw diet wherever possible. Gabriel Smith
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 09:44:45 -0500 Subject: FEL-L: Raw vs. cooked -Reply
I remember having seen an article where felines have a natural resistance to salmonella, but are also known to be able to carry the bacteria. (Salmonella are one of the common food poisoning bacteria.)
I am concerned about the Australian practice of removing "residual bone". How is calcium supplemented?
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:19:38 -0500 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Raw vs. cooked
I have answered some of your questions above. I am very happy with the raw meat I get from Hereford. Their number is 800 858-4384 for more info. I am also interested in any info you may receive on E-coli or salmonella. Please post it to the list when you find something informative.
One thing my vet told me about is irradiation. It kills all bacteria, without leaving any residual radiation or altering the food in any way. Apparently, there is a controversy over this, people seem to be paranoid about radiation. I'm more paranoid about E-coli & salmonella. I've lost a lot of kittens to E-coli & my husband has had salmonella. (I've never seen anyone that sick that lived!)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 98 10:38:44 -0000 Subject: FEL-L: Re: Raw vs. Cooked Yeah, I serve my domestics raw food (I don't have any non-domestics). I've never had a problem with salmonella or E. coli. The cats seem much better off for the raw meat. Yes, I give them chicken necks. The only problem I have is that not all of them finish the piece of neck I give them, and I find it a few days later under the bed or in the cupboard, covered with ants. The few dogs I've fed necks to don't seem to have a problem with bones. I don't think they even chewed them. I've heard that backs, necks and wing tips are the ones that should be fed, and all bones fed should be raw. The long bones don't break down so easily, and can cause bloat.
Organ meats I feed about once a week, varying the organ involved. I mix a nutritional yeast, kelp powder, and bone meal mix into the food when I make it, and add vitamin supplements. They get eggs once a week, too, also raw. Actually, they get the yolks, and I use the whites in something for us.
I'm happy to discuss this with you, though I know more about cats. I can put you in touch with others who know more about raw foods in dogs. Debbie
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:19:57 +1000 Subject: RE: FEL-L: Raw vs. cooked -Reply
I think you may have misunderstood me. The residue bones that are removed are just the leftovers so tto speak. Most of the bone and fur are eaten by the cats. I would be interested in reading the article you mentioned about cats having a natural resistence to salmonella bacteria. On a domestic note, I feed my dog a mixture of raw meat, vegetables and pasta, which she loves. She is a very healthy and energetic dog and so far we have had no real problems with salmonella or ecoli poisoning.
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:24:41 -0800 Subject: FEL-L: ZuPreem Info
>Mike Harrison asks Can anyone supply any factual data as far as ZuPreem and Mazuri being good or bad medium sized wild/exotic feline diets?
Some web page links...
http://www.labdiet.com/pmi_source/specialty/Sum9.html
http://www.pmifeeds.com/indexmazuri.html
http://www.shetland.fi/petag.html
I have been feeding E'Leisha ZuPreem for one year (from about 3 months old to now at 15 months) and she is healthy, active, and VERY strong (she snuggles but does not like to be held so when I pick her up she gives me about 10-15 seconds and then "muscles" her way out of my arms)
This is one cat (Serval) so make your own judgements…
Raw VS Cooked - Offtopic Dogs
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:49:37 -0700 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Raw vs. cooked -Reply
Also consider in this subject that dogs are not true carnivores but are more like bears and are omnivores. They estimate that a bear does eat some meat but it only accounts for 6 to 8 percent of the total dietary intake. Dogs eat meat but also a variety of other things as well. Cats are true carnivores and eat only meat. This is also the reason that some dogs like to dine of cat feces. Omnivores have a much more complete digestion of protein than carnivores. Given the same amount of protein in the diet the omnivore will digest more of it than a carnivore. This is why cats and other true carnivores eat such a high protein diet because they don't digest all of the protein from what they eat and some protein is present in the fecal material of carnivores. The dog being an omnivore smells the undigested protein in the carnivore fecal material and it smells like food. Thus a dog has a reason for munching cat feces. Just some food for thought.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:08:31 -0700 Subject: Re: FEL-L: swollen feet
There is one other thought Jack, For those of us who have dogs with the cats.....some of us know the dogs beat us to litter box scooping.
I guess there is enough concerns with other available litter materials—I will definetly stay away from clumping sands and clays. If I feel I must have a clumping material I will go with a more natural product. Like the wheat.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:05:09 -0700 Subject: Re: FEL-L: swollen feet
I don't quite know how to get them not to eat the stuff but I was told the reason they are attracted to it has to do with the difference in the digestive processes between ominvores and carnivores. Dogs are ominvores which if I understood it right have a more complete digestive process and utilize more protein out of what they injest than a carniverous animal such as a cat. Carnivores on the other hand eat a much higher protein diet (i.e. raw meat) and have a less complete processing of protein. The result is that when the cat (carnivore) does business the material excreted still has a fair amount of undigested protein in it and still smells like protein and this smells like food to the dogs (omnivore). Thus the dog eats what smells like leftover food to it.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:38:57, -0500 Subject: FEL-L: carnivore/omnivore
You are right. Except the dogs are carnivores also. Just more evolved. Felines are still (I think the only?) "true carnivores". They have a shorter digestive tract, therefore need higher protein, therefore what comes out is very palatable to dogs. This is why wild cats cannot survive on dry kibble for domestic cats. In the domestication process, felis cattus has evolved a longer digestive tract than their wild cousins.